God’s Gift To Brain Surgery
(Interview By Jeff Silberman)
8/26/1994
“Genius†is a word that’s bandied about a lot these days. In the radio business, there are those who assign it to anyone whose station rose more than a tenth of a point in an Arbitrend. Yet to be honest, the true geniuses in this business are very few and far between. In the entire history of hit music radio, you actually can count the real programming geniuses on one hand.
Gerry Cagle is one of those fingers…to many, the biggest finger. Check out “The Long And Winding Road†on the opposite page; the man has buried more heritage stations than most PD whizzes have even dreamed about running. He has been there and done that, all with unerring insight and undeniable vision that have earned him a vaunted place in this industry. At a trade magazine. This trade magazine.
Who were the most influential people you’ve met in radio and what were the most important lessons they taught you?
Paul Drew, who is the person mot responsible for the success I had in radio, taught me how to make my whacked-out ideas work within the framework of a format. KFRC GM Pat Norman taught me to allow the people I hired to make mistakes and thereby learn rather than remain clones. And the infamous Tondelaho shared the secrets of the universe with me.
Was there at time when radio stopped being as much fun as it became a business?
Not really. Radio has always been a business; it’s just that the business has changed. Whether or not your job is fun is up to you, not the circumstances. So many people today want to hide behind the excuse that they are unable to perform because radio is such a business. I’ve got news for them. It’s always been that way. Too many programmers want to impress their superiors with their business acumen. The truth is that good PDs are artists. They aren’t hired to save money, they’re hired to make money. If you are a good business person with poor ratings, you’ll be a good business person in the unemployment line. Programmers should be proud that they have a unique ability and avoid conforming to the attitudes set by those who aren’t fortunate enough to have that vision. I’ll give you a great example. When Jerry Clifton was hired to program the RKO station in New York, he was told that he couldn’t do call-in contests. The phone company promised to shut down telephone service to any stations running such contests because there were no high-density lines in the Big Apple. Clifton ran call-in contests using pay phones in different sections of the city. That way, when phone service was shut down because of the high number of calls, his station wasn’t affected. The phone company finally relented and put in high-density lines to all stations. A good programmer will also always find a way to make what he does fun, because if it isn’t, his audience won’t enjoy it. Listeners don’t choose radio stations because it makes good business, they choose their favorites because they enjoy sharing the music and entertainment. If it ain’t fun…it ain’t happening.
Two words: “label politics.†What’s the best way to deal with it?
By dealing with it. Bill Gavin said it best: “Be nice to the people who are paid to be nice to you.†Radio has to recognize that record companies service us with product. We need to respect their needs because radio needs record companies to survive. If radio programmers would spend more time with record promoters explaining the format, restrictions and needs of their station, most relationships would improve dramatically. Good record promoters can take “no†for an answer if they understand the reasons behind the answer. By taking time to explain your philosophy beforehand, you will save time and avoid negative attitudes in the long run. PDs who haven’t got the time to spend with record company representatives should make time. It’s an important part of their business.
Where do you draw the line between legitimate promotions and add/rotation blackmail?
Simple. If you never ask a record company for favors, they have no right to ask you. If you work with record companies on certain promotions, there will be a payback.
You wrote a book called “PAYOLA.†Where did you get the inspiration for the title?
There was no inspiration. I wrote it for the money. It was fun and mostly fiction. Just like the title.
Why did you get out of radio and go into politics?
I was asked by the Governor of Mississippi to become his Chief of Staff. I thought it would be a fun, learning experience and it was. At the end of his term, elections were being held for Congress. I never really believed I would win, but how many people can say they ran for Congress of the United States? When I went across the district in a wagon pulled by a team of mules, we sealed our fate. Mississippi just wasn’t ready for such a futuristic approach.
Why did you get back into radio?
Simple. I lost the race. Otherwise, you would be calling me Congressman Cagle and I would be doing this interview with a real reporter.
With the aging money demos, can Top 40 survive programming a Mainstream mix?
That is not now, nor has it ever been, a programming problem. That’s a sales problem. In every other medium, youth is seen as a positive, not a negative. Nearly every advertisement features young, sexy images. Top 40 needs to sell that image, not campaign for the opposite. If Top 40 radio did a better job selling what it is rather than trying to be something it isn’t, revenue wouldn’t be a problem.
What are the biggest obstacles a programmer must overcome?
Politics, lust, power, money, booze and drugs…and the absence of politics, lust, power, money, booze and drugs.
In a competitive situation, does it help to take a personal fix on your rivals?
You have to identify your opposition as much as you identify your target. If you have competition in the format, you have to counter-program. You must point out the differences to your audience and make sure you benefit from the comparison.
So how important is it to play mind games on your rivals?
Before you can win with your audience, you must win within your own company…in the halls…at the water cooler. Then, as Randy Kabrich once said, “Before you can successfully program your radio station, you have to successfully program your competitor’s.†You must beat them within their operation. If they are busy talking about you, they aren’t working on their own product. The more they worry about you, the easier it is to beat them.
What are the most effective mind games to play on the competition?
Anything that makes you their focus. Not that I would ever stoop to this level, but going through their trash, finding memos, then sending one to the GM with a note attached might make them believe there is a traitor in their midst. Showing up at their promotions with something better is always fun. Any of the small things you can do to make their life miserable.
If or when the hammer falls on you, what’s the first thing you should do?
Find another nail.
How long can a person program Top 40? Is there or should there be an age limit?
Age has nothing to do with it. It’s a state-of-mind. There are 20-year-olds who are too old in their mind set to program Top 40. There are many over-50s who have what it takes. Ability is what counts.
You have the reputation for being sort of a desperado. Has that helped or hurt?
Both. I always did it my way because I have the confidence and track record to believe my way is the best. I was hired to win, period. It was, at times, chaotic and all-consuming, but it worked. I accepted no restrictions going in because I considered programming war. After the war is won, a new general is often needed to keep the peace. I found it boring. It’s a fact that ladies love outlaws, but many GMs don’t share that same emotion.
Why did you get out of radio and into publishing?
I was lucky. I managed to achieve all of my goals. I had nothing left to prove as a programmer. I wanted to do something that would combine my love of music and my relationships in the record community with my knowledge of radio programming. Network 40 provided the perfect opportunity.
Why did you pick on R&R so much?
Good programming. If Network 40 was to become the most important trade magazine, it would have to beat the number one. Because I dealt with R&R for so many years as a programmer, I knew the shortcomings from the radio side. On top of radio’s legitimate gripes about R&R’s dictatorial policies and attitude, it didn’t take long to identify the record companies’ areas of dissatisfaction. Pointing out those problems to our listeners gave them the opportunity to choose the better station.
Was it personal?
Only in the sense that R&R didn’t care about the audience they served. As I was once a part of their audience and had to survive within their dictates, I must admit it was more satisfying than if I had never been involved on that level. But as VP/GM of this magazine, I’m concerned with the success of Network 40, not the failures of others.
How should radio look at the trades? What the most good they can get out of them?
I can only speak for Network 40. I don’t read the other trades and I don’t believe anyone else should either. Network 40 operates on a very simple premise: We try to provide our listeners with information that will make their jobs easier. Everyone employed by Network 40 was in radio before they began working here. We understand the industry like no other. Network 40 serves as a published on-line system that allows our radio and record company listeners an opportunity to interact and share ideas. We work with the radio and record industries…not for either. In the coming months, our expansion will be dramatic. Thanks to our listeners, we are growing…and they are growing with us.
Any final words before we’re finished?
If you want to be a desperado, you can’t be afraid to die.
The Long And Winding Road
WRBC, Jackson                                 Program Director
WFUN, Miami                                   Air Personality
WMFJ, Daytona Beach                      Program Director
KTLK, Denver                                   Program Director
KRIZ, Phoenix                                    Program Director
WRKO, Boston                                  Program Director
KHJ, Los Angeles                              Program Director,
RKO VP Programming
KCBQ, San Diego                              Program Director
Mississippi Governor’s Office          Chief Of Staff
KFRC, San Francisco                        Operations Manager
WAPP, New York                              VP Operations
Summit Communications                    VP Programming
Y106, Orlando                                     Station Manager
TK Communications                          National PD
KWOD, Sacramento                           Station Manager